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	<title>Comments on: Post code address file: Tom Steinberg and I would agree on the idiocy of Royal Mail</title>
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	<link>http://www.tom-watson.co.uk/2009/10/post-code-address-file-tom-steinberg-and-i-would-agree-on-the-idiocy-of-royal-mail/</link>
	<description>The inside track since 2003</description>
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		<title>By: Developers dismayed as No.10 blocks free postcode file&#160;&#124;&#160;World BB News</title>
		<link>http://www.tom-watson.co.uk/2009/10/post-code-address-file-tom-steinberg-and-i-would-agree-on-the-idiocy-of-royal-mail/comment-page-1/#comment-102485</link>
		<dc:creator>Developers dismayed as No.10 blocks free postcode file&#160;&#124;&#160;World BB News</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jan 2010 03:49:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tom-watson.co.uk/?p=3953#comment-102485</guid>
		<description>[...] it seems that the PAF&#8217;s licensing is a problem. As a commenter called Chloe points out in a comment to one of Tom Watson MP&#8217;s posts about RM and PAF, &#8220;I work for royal mail and i know my managers use google to lookup incomplete [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] it seems that the PAF&#8217;s licensing is a problem. As a commenter called Chloe points out in a comment to one of Tom Watson MP&#8217;s posts about RM and PAF, &#8220;I work for royal mail and i know my managers use google to lookup incomplete [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Royal Mail Rub Our Noses in it &#124; Software Cooperative News</title>
		<link>http://www.tom-watson.co.uk/2009/10/post-code-address-file-tom-steinberg-and-i-would-agree-on-the-idiocy-of-royal-mail/comment-page-1/#comment-91569</link>
		<dc:creator>Royal Mail Rub Our Noses in it &#124; Software Cooperative News</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 07:24:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tom-watson.co.uk/?p=3953#comment-91569</guid>
		<description>[...] after Royal Mail shut down useful community websites causing MP comments on the idiocy of Royal Mail, I was rather surprised to get this little thing in the post [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] after Royal Mail shut down useful community websites causing MP comments on the idiocy of Royal Mail, I was rather surprised to get this little thing in the post [...]</p>
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		<title>By: UK: Tracking government information on transparency websites :: Elites TV</title>
		<link>http://www.tom-watson.co.uk/2009/10/post-code-address-file-tom-steinberg-and-i-would-agree-on-the-idiocy-of-royal-mail/comment-page-1/#comment-90116</link>
		<dc:creator>UK: Tracking government information on transparency websites :: Elites TV</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 14:10:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tom-watson.co.uk/?p=3953#comment-90116</guid>
		<description>[...] But amid the setbacks, the open data campaign is fast gaining pace, and political support. One of the first people to write about the Royal Mail&#8217;s action? Tom Watson, MP, an advisory council member to the Open Rights Group (ORG). [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] But amid the setbacks, the open data campaign is fast gaining pace, and political support. One of the first people to write about the Royal Mail&#8217;s action? Tom Watson, MP, an advisory council member to the Open Rights Group (ORG). [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Save Ernest Marples &#124; otrops</title>
		<link>http://www.tom-watson.co.uk/2009/10/post-code-address-file-tom-steinberg-and-i-would-agree-on-the-idiocy-of-royal-mail/comment-page-1/#comment-90010</link>
		<dc:creator>Save Ernest Marples &#124; otrops</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 22:35:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tom-watson.co.uk/?p=3953#comment-90010</guid>
		<description>[...] has been covered elsewhere by the Open Rights Group, Tom Watson, The Guardian Free Our Data blog and Boing Boing. Since they&#8217;ve already done a stellar job of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] has been covered elsewhere by the Open Rights Group, Tom Watson, The Guardian Free Our Data blog and Boing Boing. Since they&#8217;ve already done a stellar job of [...]</p>
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		<title>By: CycleStreets &#187; Blog</title>
		<link>http://www.tom-watson.co.uk/2009/10/post-code-address-file-tom-steinberg-and-i-would-agree-on-the-idiocy-of-royal-mail/comment-page-1/#comment-89950</link>
		<dc:creator>CycleStreets &#187; Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 11:21:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tom-watson.co.uk/?p=3953#comment-89950</guid>
		<description>[...] written a great letter to Royal Mail on the issue of postcode database availability following an earlier blog post he made. (NB CycleStreets does not, and will not, have any party-political affiliation.) It will be [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] written a great letter to Royal Mail on the issue of postcode database availability following an earlier blog post he made. (NB CycleStreets does not, and will not, have any party-political affiliation.) It will be [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Open Knowledge Foundation Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Ernest Marples UK postcode site has been taken down</title>
		<link>http://www.tom-watson.co.uk/2009/10/post-code-address-file-tom-steinberg-and-i-would-agree-on-the-idiocy-of-royal-mail/comment-page-1/#comment-89698</link>
		<dc:creator>Open Knowledge Foundation Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Ernest Marples UK postcode site has been taken down</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 13:04:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tom-watson.co.uk/?p=3953#comment-89698</guid>
		<description>[...] Watson MP, who was keynote at our 5th Communia Workshop in London earlier this year, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Watson MP, who was keynote at our 5th Communia Workshop in London earlier this year, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Scott K</title>
		<link>http://www.tom-watson.co.uk/2009/10/post-code-address-file-tom-steinberg-and-i-would-agree-on-the-idiocy-of-royal-mail/comment-page-1/#comment-89627</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 22:49:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tom-watson.co.uk/?p=3953#comment-89627</guid>
		<description>In Postcomm&#039;s review of the PAF (postcode address file) management, it agreed that Royal Mail should be able to &quot;recover enough revenue to cover reasonable costs plus an operating profit margin of around 8-10%.&quot; and also agreed that Royal Mail should pay (ie charge itself) for use of PAF. 

The review stopped short of recommending that the PAF be spun out to its own company - rather, it&#039;s in Royal Mail but surrounded by &quot;Chinese Walls&quot;. 

Postcomm also noted that &quot;As a result of the issues of database rights and IP rights, licences are particularly complex&quot; - but it then washed its hands of them. 

Their report also shows that Royal Mail made £1.5 million in profit from the PAF data. 

It&#039;s a shame that spin-out wasn&#039;t considered. Surely a better, safer, fairer approach would be to go for a Linx type approach - a not for profit trust, that manages, maintains and develops the PAF, and sets the charges appropriately - including, possibly, letting it be free for non-profit/public use.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In Postcomm&#8217;s review of the PAF (postcode address file) management, it agreed that Royal Mail should be able to &#8220;recover enough revenue to cover reasonable costs plus an operating profit margin of around 8-10%.&#8221; and also agreed that Royal Mail should pay (ie charge itself) for use of PAF. </p>
<p>The review stopped short of recommending that the PAF be spun out to its own company &#8211; rather, it&#8217;s in Royal Mail but surrounded by &#8220;Chinese Walls&#8221;. </p>
<p>Postcomm also noted that &#8220;As a result of the issues of database rights and IP rights, licences are particularly complex&#8221; &#8211; but it then washed its hands of them. </p>
<p>Their report also shows that Royal Mail made £1.5 million in profit from the PAF data. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s a shame that spin-out wasn&#8217;t considered. Surely a better, safer, fairer approach would be to go for a Linx type approach &#8211; a not for profit trust, that manages, maintains and develops the PAF, and sets the charges appropriately &#8211; including, possibly, letting it be free for non-profit/public use.</p>
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		<title>By: Martin, CycleStreets</title>
		<link>http://www.tom-watson.co.uk/2009/10/post-code-address-file-tom-steinberg-and-i-would-agree-on-the-idiocy-of-royal-mail/comment-page-1/#comment-89620</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin, CycleStreets</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 21:51:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tom-watson.co.uk/?p=3953#comment-89620</guid>
		<description>@Richard E: The difference is that giving away a single postcode doesn&#039;t contain the database right that a compiled database has.

@chloe: Text/Geolocation and other methods are reducing the importance of postcodes - but the expectation of typing in postcodes into webpages isn&#039;t going to go away anytime soon.

Our website really needs full postcode searching, but as a not-for-profit the kind of money concerned to buy the PAF doesn&#039;t come easily. Sadly all the other options are incomplete - and using the Google reverse geocoder requires use of their map base to be within their T&amp;Cs.

The PAF needs to be made freely accessible, as a public resource. But that needs to come through legal change (not ripping it off), and perhaps the current Earnest Marples stunt will help make that happen.

What are/were ErnestMarples.com actually using? Returning for the first response from a range of APIs?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Richard E: The difference is that giving away a single postcode doesn&#8217;t contain the database right that a compiled database has.</p>
<p>@chloe: Text/Geolocation and other methods are reducing the importance of postcodes &#8211; but the expectation of typing in postcodes into webpages isn&#8217;t going to go away anytime soon.</p>
<p>Our website really needs full postcode searching, but as a not-for-profit the kind of money concerned to buy the PAF doesn&#8217;t come easily. Sadly all the other options are incomplete &#8211; and using the Google reverse geocoder requires use of their map base to be within their T&amp;Cs.</p>
<p>The PAF needs to be made freely accessible, as a public resource. But that needs to come through legal change (not ripping it off), and perhaps the current Earnest Marples stunt will help make that happen.</p>
<p>What are/were ErnestMarples.com actually using? Returning for the first response from a range of APIs?</p>
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		<title>By: Royal Mail shut down useful community websites</title>
		<link>http://www.tom-watson.co.uk/2009/10/post-code-address-file-tom-steinberg-and-i-would-agree-on-the-idiocy-of-royal-mail/comment-page-1/#comment-89617</link>
		<dc:creator>Royal Mail shut down useful community websites</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 21:14:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tom-watson.co.uk/?p=3953#comment-89617</guid>
		<description>[...] Tom Watson [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Tom Watson [...]</p>
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		<title>By: chloe</title>
		<link>http://www.tom-watson.co.uk/2009/10/post-code-address-file-tom-steinberg-and-i-would-agree-on-the-idiocy-of-royal-mail/comment-page-1/#comment-89603</link>
		<dc:creator>chloe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 18:10:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tom-watson.co.uk/?p=3953#comment-89603</guid>
		<description>I work for royal mail and i know my managers use google to lookup incomplete addresses and not the royal mails own software because it is more accurate and up to date and does not have to be licensed to each computer in their office.

businesses and charities publish their addresses on their websites, estate agents and online property services 
use often list postcodes that can be found by search engines. 

I enjoy working for royal mail and I am not a royal mail hater but they are behind the times and still fear the internet, texting, email and so on. there is a time to let go and provide a service and garner appreciation not cling to old ways of thinking and short term profits.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I work for royal mail and i know my managers use google to lookup incomplete addresses and not the royal mails own software because it is more accurate and up to date and does not have to be licensed to each computer in their office.</p>
<p>businesses and charities publish their addresses on their websites, estate agents and online property services<br />
use often list postcodes that can be found by search engines. </p>
<p>I enjoy working for royal mail and I am not a royal mail hater but they are behind the times and still fear the internet, texting, email and so on. there is a time to let go and provide a service and garner appreciation not cling to old ways of thinking and short term profits.</p>
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