Genesis of a mass movement

8 comments ↓

#1 Tim Ireland on 02.18.09 at 6:59 pm

The enemy of my enemy is not my friend.

And watching Hilton and Draper play nice while retro-moderating an entire conversation out of existence makes me sick to my stomach.

The 2008 event you link to, Tom, involved Paul Staines – aka ‘Guido Fawkes’ – trying to bully me in secret (because rubbishing me in public with anonymous comments wasn’t working); this is essentially the same thing that Draper pulled. It shows how we are different in a way that can’t be smoothed over.

On that note, if you notice cracks in the foundation of your house, you really shouldn’t try to use Pollyfilla to fix it.

Draper is the wrong man to lead something like LabourList. Full stop.

Basic skills may come his way one day, but he just doesn’t have the principles or personality for this job.

(If he were a loose cannon , free to smear anyone he wanted any way he pleased – perhaps with a little twice-removed sekrit funding here and there – *then* he’d be a perfect match for Staines, but even then I’d hit the bugger with a stick any time he strayed into my neighbourhood. I have no patience for liars and cheats, *especially* when they pose as worthy ambassadors for any community of which I’m a member.)

#2 The Bickerstaffe Record » Blog Archive » ‘The Biggest Grudge Match on the Internet’? Simply, my dear Watson on 02.18.09 at 7:14 pm

[...] Tom Watson, of MP fame, has the gall to call this little piffling dispute the ‘biggest grudge match on the internet’. [...]

#3 Letters From A Tory on 02.19.09 at 10:38 am

“Whilst I still have reservations about Labour people on Messagespace, the outbreak of unity is to be welcomed”

Why should being part of an advertising chain have anything to do with what party you belong to? Advertising is about making money, no? Hilton’s membership of the Messagespace team is completely irrelevant and Draper was bang out of order.

#4 Tim Ireland on 02.19.09 at 11:35 am

Draper’s scert bullying was well out of order, but why would anyone in their right mind on the left support an organisation that lines the pockets of someone like Paul Staines (aka Guido Fawkes)? Think about it, purely from a practical perspective.

#5 Tom on 02.19.09 at 11:45 am

Actually Tim, that’s my view. I have told Alex Hilton over many months that he would be wise to remove himself from an association with Paul Staines. He chooses not to and the spat this week was the result.

#6 Tim Ireland on 02.19.09 at 12:07 pm

I heard of you telling Jag Singh the same thing in public, and I was encouraged and impressed by that.

Some people would appear to be using Draper’s tactics to mask or misrepresent that point. And they’re mostly succeeding. I hope you can as a result better appreciate where Mr Draper’s tactics might have their weaknesses.

My main objection to Staines isn’t his politics, but his tactics. He cheats and mistreats people, and pollutes my environment when he does so. And outsiders introduced to us by old media typically are invited to judge us all by the highest profile bloggers with the least credibility.

If Draper’s going to use noxious chemicals on his property or if he’s going to allow noxious weeds to grow wild, I will be in his face, just as I’ve been in Staines’.

(If, like Staines, he then refuses to engage in conversation but at the same time tries to undermine me via anonymous comments and the like, we are going to have a serious problem.)

#7 Morus on 02.19.09 at 12:51 pm

“Actually Tim, that’s my view. I have told Alex Hilton over many months that he would be wise to remove himself from an association with Paul Staines. He chooses not to and the spat this week was the result.”

I don’t deny that being a part of MessageSpace might make life difficult for Alex and Jag, and it’s good that their friends tell them so, as a mark of honesty.

That’s somewhat different from unsolicited threats from whomsoever, which cannot be condoned. Your sentence “He chooses not to [remove himself from associating with Staines] and the spat this week was the result” implies that he is in some way responsible for being on the wrong end of a bullying phone call because of his errant behaviour.

Any other instances of aggression you’d care to cite where you feel it’s really the recipients’ fault?

#8 Dogstarscribe on 02.20.09 at 1:38 pm

Morus,
Actually, there’s no evidence except ALex’s protestations that any threats were uttered.

It isn’t a threat to tell your friend ‘If you hang round with that lot you’re going to get hurt.’ In the case of hanging round with Paul Staines, whose last business venture imploded in a spectacular series of court cases, it’s a statement of the bleeding obvious…

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