Comments on: PR uncertainty http://www.tom-watson.co.uk/2007/04/pr-uncertainty/ The inside track since 2003 Tue, 07 Sep 2010 14:15:10 +0100 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: agentmancuso http://www.tom-watson.co.uk/2007/04/pr-uncertainty/comment-page-1/#comment-5782 agentmancuso Fri, 20 Apr 2007 11:34:55 +0000 http://www.tom-watson.co.uk/?p=1163#comment-5782 Surely commitment to a fair electoral system should outweigh commitment to your own party's performance? Surely commitment to a fair electoral system should outweigh commitment to your own party’s performance?

]]> By: Quaequam Blog! » Blog Archive » Scottish Elections: it ain’t over ’til its over http://www.tom-watson.co.uk/2007/04/pr-uncertainty/comment-page-1/#comment-5776 Quaequam Blog! » Blog Archive » Scottish Elections: it ain’t over ’til its over Fri, 20 Apr 2007 09:56:40 +0000 http://www.tom-watson.co.uk/?p=1163#comment-5776 [...] He may be comforted to find he has an ally in Tom Watson, who appears to think that the fact that PR is preventing the Scots from having independence foisted on them without their consent is a bad thing. [...] [...] He may be comforted to find he has an ally in Tom Watson, who appears to think that the fact that PR is preventing the Scots from having independence foisted on them without their consent is a bad thing. [...]

]]> By: Neil F http://www.tom-watson.co.uk/2007/04/pr-uncertainty/comment-page-1/#comment-5193 Neil F Tue, 10 Apr 2007 13:42:13 +0000 http://www.tom-watson.co.uk/?p=1163#comment-5193 An alarming article in the Guardian today ('Labour's gift to the SNP') highlighting how proportional representation in Scotland will probably lose Labour 13 councils. PR will double the SNP council representation and we could be left running outright a mere 3 councils. http://politics.guardian.co.uk/scotland/story/0,,2053443,00.html All those in the party that favour PR need to ask themselves at what point does their support for electoral reform supercede their commitment to getting Labour candidates elected to office? Electoral reformers should reflect on that if/when bad headlines emerge from Scotland on May 3rd. An alarming article in the Guardian today (‘Labour’s gift to the SNP’) highlighting how proportional representation in Scotland will probably lose Labour 13 councils. PR will double the SNP council representation and we could be left running outright a mere 3 councils.

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/scotland/story/0,,2053443,00.html

All those in the party that favour PR need to ask themselves at what point does their support for electoral reform supercede their commitment to getting Labour candidates elected to office? Electoral reformers should reflect on that if/when bad headlines emerge from Scotland on May 3rd.

]]> By: Barry Allen http://www.tom-watson.co.uk/2007/04/pr-uncertainty/comment-page-1/#comment-5173 Barry Allen Tue, 10 Apr 2007 09:08:58 +0000 http://www.tom-watson.co.uk/?p=1163#comment-5173 Thing is though Tom, if FPTP was used in Scotland, it may come to pass that in a future election the electoral mathmatics might be such that the Nats could have a majority while having a minority of the votes, like Labour in England. That would be even more disasterous, having a minority decide on independence. At least with the current system, the nats have to be collegic. Thing is though Tom, if FPTP was used in Scotland, it may come to pass that in a future election the electoral mathmatics might be such that the Nats could have a majority while having a minority of the votes, like Labour in England. That would be even more disasterous, having a minority decide on independence. At least with the current system, the nats have to be collegic.

]]> By: Chanticleer http://www.tom-watson.co.uk/2007/04/pr-uncertainty/comment-page-1/#comment-5136 Chanticleer Mon, 09 Apr 2007 18:13:07 +0000 http://www.tom-watson.co.uk/?p=1163#comment-5136 Likewise in Wales, Tom - everyone knows there will be a coalition here after May 3. The question is which party is prepared to get in to bed with another, and none are prepared to admit openly which way they're swaying. There was a Lib/Lab coalition here previously, which worked well for both parties. One thing's for certain - the nationalists are the least favourable to the other three parties when the leaders start looking around for potential government partners. Likewise in Wales, Tom – everyone knows there will be a coalition here after May 3. The question is which party is prepared to get in to bed with another, and none are prepared to admit openly which way they’re swaying.

There was a Lib/Lab coalition here previously, which worked well for both parties. One thing’s for certain – the nationalists are the least favourable to the other three parties when the leaders start looking around for potential government partners.

]]> By: Tartan Hero http://www.tom-watson.co.uk/2007/04/pr-uncertainty/comment-page-1/#comment-5131 Tartan Hero Mon, 09 Apr 2007 15:14:20 +0000 http://www.tom-watson.co.uk/?p=1163#comment-5131 Yet more intelligible guff from the Brownies.. the only thing you need to learn at this stage matey is that Labour is heading for meltdown.. Bliar's premiership will end and Brown's starts on a low, with both fighting over who to blame. Maybe one day the penny will drop that it isn't either of them personally (well not 100%), but the fact people are fed up of London government (just as they are in Newcastle, Cardiff, and Truro).. Yet more intelligible guff from the Brownies.. the only thing you need to learn at this stage matey is that Labour is heading for meltdown.. Bliar’s premiership will end and Brown’s starts on a low, with both fighting over who to blame. Maybe one day the penny will drop that it isn’t either of them personally (well not 100%), but the fact people are fed up of London government (just as they are in Newcastle, Cardiff, and Truro)..

]]> By: Paul http://www.tom-watson.co.uk/2007/04/pr-uncertainty/comment-page-1/#comment-5126 Paul Mon, 09 Apr 2007 14:25:46 +0000 http://www.tom-watson.co.uk/?p=1163#comment-5126 Tom, you make a very good point. We have also seen a smilar situation in Germany with the Merkel government. The constant post election bargaining means that 'key' mainfesto policies are almost always watered down, or thrown out with PR systems. By giving undue power to coalition partners, PR systems also undermine the very principals which they seek to 'correct.' Tom, you make a very good point. We have also seen a smilar situation in Germany with the Merkel government. The constant post election bargaining means that ‘key’ mainfesto policies are almost always watered down, or thrown out with PR systems.

By giving undue power to coalition partners, PR systems also undermine the very principals which they seek to ‘correct.’

]]> By: Tim Roll-Pickering http://www.tom-watson.co.uk/2007/04/pr-uncertainty/comment-page-1/#comment-5124 Tim Roll-Pickering Mon, 09 Apr 2007 13:21:55 +0000 http://www.tom-watson.co.uk/?p=1163#comment-5124 But equally FPTP only delivers "decisive government" when the votes are spread across the country in such a way that at least two parties are in a position to win a majority of seats. It does not in and of itself ensure stable government - that relies on many other factors. But equally FPTP only delivers “decisive government” when the votes are spread across the country in such a way that at least two parties are in a position to win a majority of seats. It does not in and of itself ensure stable government – that relies on many other factors.

]]> By: david http://www.tom-watson.co.uk/2007/04/pr-uncertainty/comment-page-1/#comment-5120 david Mon, 09 Apr 2007 12:35:28 +0000 http://www.tom-watson.co.uk/?p=1163#comment-5120 Tom, Dictatorships are of course ultimately the most decisive administrations. PR means people will have to work in a more co-operative fashion, and less adversarial way, it doesn’t stop administrations being decisive. Still FPTP has served the Lib Dems well in Devon. Tom, Dictatorships are of course ultimately the most decisive administrations. PR means people will have to work in a more co-operative fashion, and less adversarial way, it doesn’t stop administrations being decisive. Still FPTP has served the Lib Dems well in Devon.

]]> By: Tom http://www.tom-watson.co.uk/2007/04/pr-uncertainty/comment-page-1/#comment-5117 Tom Mon, 09 Apr 2007 12:06:45 +0000 http://www.tom-watson.co.uk/?p=1163#comment-5117 GC-M: I think the point I made was perfectly clear. Unlike the independence question in Scotland right now. David: It comes down to the question about whether you want decisive government with an executive that can make a half-decent decision on the issues that count. Granted, PR might distribute seats evenly in proportion to votes cast but it certainly does not distribute power proportionately. If the SNP "win" the electins in Scotland, the future of the indepenence referendum will be in the hands of the minority partners in their admnistratioin. I can't see too many people wanting that. GC-M: I think the point I made was perfectly clear. Unlike the independence question in Scotland right now.

David: It comes down to the question about whether you want decisive government with an executive that can make a half-decent decision on the issues that count. Granted, PR might distribute seats evenly in proportion to votes cast but it certainly does not distribute power proportionately. If the SNP “win” the electins in Scotland, the future of the indepenence referendum will be in the hands of the minority partners in their admnistratioin. I can’t see too many people wanting that.

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